RE: [vernalpool] Re: Salamander with legs

Skimming this thread, I noticed that I think Matt said any chin speckling means marbled. Though I've heard that said a lot, I disagree. If the chin is very heavily pigmented, sure that probably means it's a marbled. But we've seen overwintering spotted larvae with a fair amount of black pigment on the chin. I think the body shape seems more diagnostic in this season (marbleds taper more, and if I think overwintering spotteds should have more evenly developed hind and front legs, whereas marbleds right now probably have weenier hind legs) but that's more of a gestalt thing. Also, spotteds backs' seem to be a flatter dull brown in this season, but that's even less quantifiable. I agree that the "string of pearls" is too variable on both species to be very useful.

-Noah

-----Original Message-----
From: vernalpool@yahoogroups.com on behalf of jacob.kubel
Sent: Mon 4/23/2012 9:59 AM
To: vernalpool@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vernalpool] Re: Salamander with legs

Sorry to rehash an old thread, but for those who were interested, I thought I'd mention that these salamander larvae were, indeed, confirmed to be Marbled Salamander (great find, Chris!). Unfortunately, most of the larvae were dead as of last Thursday, due to the pools having dried. A few looked like they may be able to hold on for another day or two hunkered down in muddy deer hoofprints and under grass tussocks -- I'm not sure that this rain came in time for them, though. The silver lining it that this appears to be a robust population, and so the high larval mortality observed may not have much consequence.

On another interesting note, I observed two "salamander larvae with legs" in a small (10' x 10' x 3'), man-made pit of a pool in Cummington, MA on Tuesday. Those guys, however, were definitely not Marbled Salamanders, but rather Spotted or Jefferson salamander larvae that had overwintered in the pool (my bet is on the former, given the presence of Spotted Salamander egg masses and absence of Jefferson Salamander egg masses). One of the larvae had reduced gills and had turned slate-colored, and so it was in the process of metamorphosing. The other larva was approximately the same size, but with bushier gills and brown coloration. Neat stuff, especially considering the size and source of the pool.

Jake

--- In vernalpool@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vernalpool%40yahoogroups.com> , Jane Sears Pierce <jlspierce@...> wrote:
>
> The Vernal Pool Association has a great photo of a marbled larvae (showing dorsolateral spots) at: http://www.vernalpool.org/images/40_lv_ms.jpg
> If you decide to go back to the pool to check it out again, good luck!
> ~Jane
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Rezendes <dudemcrude@...>
> To: vernalpool <vernalpool@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vernalpool%40yahoogroups.com> >
> Sent: Sat, Apr 7, 2012 11:24 am
> Subject: Re: [vernalpool] Salamander with legs
>
>
>
>
>
> That's the first thing that popped into my head, but I quickly dismissed it as being too far of a long shot. That was pretty stupid on my part for a few reasons. First, they wouldn't be the first uncommon animals (or even amphibians) to be documented at this site. Second, I was running under some ignorant, tainted memory that they were sort of restricted to the northern half of Bristol Co; I thought the closest record was Taunton. Turns out there are records for several towns and cities close by, including Dartmouth. Third, even if it is a long shot, it's highly unscientific to dismiss the possibility based on that alone.
>
> Overwintering spotteds is probably more likely. The spots appeared yellowish to me, but I didn't bother to catch one and the pictures don't clarify things much. I also think that marbled larvae would have been much larger at this time in the year than the larvae I found.
> Chris
> --- On Fri, 4/6/12, Jane Sears Pierce <jlspierce@...> wrote:
>
> From: Jane Sears Pierce <jlspierce@...>
> Subject: [vernalpool] Salamander with legs
> To: vernalpool@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vernalpool%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 8:59 AM
>
>
>
> You say that you found salamander larvae with all four limbs developed? It sounds like you might have found a marbled salamander pool... great find!
>
> Jane
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Chris Rezendes <dudemcrude@...>
>
> To: vernalpool <vernalpool@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vernalpool%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:07 pm
>
> Subject: Re: [vernalpool] so very sorry!
>
> Don't feel too bad. I've made more embarrassing mistakes in this group, I think, and they didn't have anything to do with technology.
>
> Following the group this season, it's somewhat comforting and also somewhat disconcerting to see that the odd level of activity isn't restricted to southern Bristol Co. In some parts of New Bedford, the wood frogs were out in full force as early as March 12. In others, I still haven't seen any activity at all. In the spots where they had been active, they were gone by the 17th. I've heard peepers at every single spot I've checked so far this spring, but in none of the spots have I heard more than 2 or 3 males at a time. Clearly I'm not alone here.
>
> Yesterday in New Bedford I found 3 spotted salamander larvae with all 4 limbs developed, but I haven't seen any adults or egg masses in any of the pools I normally check. This particular pool is normally difficult to access (so I only check it once or twice a season out of laziness), but the lack of rain made it very easy to get to. I'm guessing the warm weather a couple weeks ago really sped up the development of what few eggs were produced this year.
>
> This has also been a strange spring for reptiles... haven't seen any spotted turtles yet, despite them being very common this time of year at a couple of my spots. I've also only seen one snake all year (eastern garter for those interested) and it was in Taunton on the 23rd. Typically I start finding snakes the second week of March in New Bedford, then about 10-14 days later further inland, weather dependent.
>
> This has been the least fun spring I've had in a long time.
>
> Chris
>
> --- On Thu, 4/5/12, matt burne <mattburne@...> wrote:
>
> From: matt burne <mattburne@...>
>
> Subject: [vernalpool] so very sorry!
>
> To: "listserve" <vernalpool@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vernalpool%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 9:17 PM
>
> Oi, new smart phone and incompetent operator. My sincere apologies.
>
> But there really is a lot of algae out there (oi)
>
> Matt
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]