Monday, April 23, 2012

RE: [vernalpool] Re: Salamander with legs

Thanks Noah, the tapering character isnt one I'd been aware of; we'll have
to go through the catalogue and see if it's something that we can discern.
Cheers.
On Apr 23, 2012 11:09 AM, "Noah Charney" <ndcharney@amherst.edu> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Skimming this thread, I noticed that I think Matt said any chin speckling
> means marbled. Though I've heard that said a lot, I disagree. If the chin
> is very heavily pigmented, sure that probably means it's a marbled. But
> we've seen overwintering spotted larvae with a fair amount of black pigment
> on the chin. I think the body shape seems more diagnostic in this season
> (marbleds taper more, and if I think overwintering spotteds should have
> more evenly developed hind and front legs, whereas marbleds right now
> probably have weenier hind legs) but that's more of a gestalt thing. Also,
> spotteds backs' seem to be a flatter dull brown in this season, but that's
> even less quantifiable. I agree that the "string of pearls" is too variable
> on both species to be very useful.
>
> -Noah
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vernalpool@yahoogroups.com on behalf of jacob.kubel
> Sent: Mon 4/23/2012 9:59 AM
> To: vernalpool@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [vernalpool] Re: Salamander with legs
>
>
>
> Sorry to rehash an old thread, but for those who were interested, I
> thought I'd mention that these salamander larvae were, indeed, confirmed to
> be Marbled Salamander (great find, Chris!). Unfortunately, most of the
> larvae were dead as of last Thursday, due to the pools having dried. A few
> looked like they may be able to hold on for another day or two hunkered
> down in muddy deer hoofprints and under grass tussocks -- I'm not sure that
> this rain came in time for them, though. The silver lining it that this
> appears to be a robust population, and so the high larval mortality
> observed may not have much consequence.
>
> On another interesting note, I observed two "salamander larvae with legs"
> in a small (10' x 10' x 3'), man-made pit of a pool in Cummington, MA on
> Tuesday. Those guys, however, were definitely not Marbled Salamanders, but
> rather Spotted or Jefferson salamander larvae that had overwintered in the
> pool (my bet is on the former, given the presence of Spotted Salamander egg
> masses and absence of Jefferson Salamander egg masses). One of the larvae
> had reduced gills and had turned slate-colored, and so it was in the
> process of metamorphosing. The other larva was approximately the same size,
> but with bushier gills and brown coloration. Neat stuff, especially
> considering the size and source of the pool.
>
> Jake
>
> --- In vernalpool@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vernalpool%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> Jane Sears Pierce <jlspierce@...> wrote:
> >
> > The Vernal Pool Association has a great photo of a marbled larvae
> (showing dorsolateral spots) at:
> http://www.vernalpool.org/images/40_lv_ms.jpg
> > If you decide to go back to the pool to check it out again, good luck!
> > ~Jane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris Rezendes <dudemcrude@...>
> > To: vernalpool <vernalpool@yahoogroups.com <mailto:
> vernalpool%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Sent: Sat, Apr 7, 2012 11:24 am
> > Subject: Re: [vernalpool] Salamander with legs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > That's the first thing that popped into my head, but I quickly dismissed
> it as being too far of a long shot. That was pretty stupid on my part for a
> few reasons. First, they wouldn't be the first uncommon animals (or even
> amphibians) to be documented at this site. Second, I was running under some
> ignorant, tainted memory that they were sort of restricted to the northern
> half of Bristol Co; I thought the closest record was Taunton. Turns out
> there are records for several towns and cities close by, including
> Dartmouth. Third, even if it is a long shot, it's highly unscientific to
> dismiss the possibility based on that alone.
> >
> > Overwintering spotteds is probably more likely. The spots appeared
> yellowish to me, but I didn't bother to catch one and the pictures don't
> clarify things much. I also think that marbled larvae would have been much
> larger at this time in the year than the larvae I found.
> > Chris
> > --- On Fri, 4/6/12, Jane Sears Pierce <jlspierce@...> wrote:
> >
> > From: Jane Sears Pierce <jlspierce@...>
> > Subject: [vernalpool] Salamander with legs
> > To: vernalpool@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vernalpool%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 8:59 AM
> >
> >
> >
> > You say that you found salamander larvae with all four limbs developed?
> It sounds like you might have found a marbled salamander pool... great find!
> >
> > Jane
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: Chris Rezendes <dudemcrude@...>
> >
> > To: vernalpool <vernalpool@yahoogroups.com <mailto:
> vernalpool%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 11:07 pm
> >
> > Subject: Re: [vernalpool] so very sorry!
> >
> > Don't feel too bad. I've made more embarrassing mistakes in this group,
> I think, and they didn't have anything to do with technology.
> >
> > Following the group this season, it's somewhat comforting and also
> somewhat disconcerting to see that the odd level of activity isn't
> restricted to southern Bristol Co. In some parts of New Bedford, the wood
> frogs were out in full force as early as March 12. In others, I still
> haven't seen any activity at all. In the spots where they had been active,
> they were gone by the 17th. I've heard peepers at every single spot I've
> checked so far this spring, but in none of the spots have I heard more than
> 2 or 3 males at a time. Clearly I'm not alone here.
> >
> > Yesterday in New Bedford I found 3 spotted salamander larvae with all 4
> limbs developed, but I haven't seen any adults or egg masses in any of the
> pools I normally check. This particular pool is normally difficult to
> access (so I only check it once or twice a season out of laziness), but the
> lack of rain made it very easy to get to. I'm guessing the warm weather a
> couple weeks ago really sped up the development of what few eggs were
> produced this year.
> >
> > This has also been a strange spring for reptiles... haven't seen any
> spotted turtles yet, despite them being very common this time of year at a
> couple of my spots. I've also only seen one snake all year (eastern garter
> for those interested) and it was in Taunton on the 23rd. Typically I start
> finding snakes the second week of March in New Bedford, then about 10-14
> days later further inland, weather dependent.
> >
> > This has been the least fun spring I've had in a long time.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > --- On Thu, 4/5/12, matt burne <mattburne@...> wrote:
> >
> > From: matt burne <mattburne@...>
> >
> > Subject: [vernalpool] so very sorry!
> >
> > To: "listserve" <vernalpool@yahoogroups.com <mailto:
> vernalpool%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 9:17 PM
> >
> > Oi, new smart phone and incompetent operator. My sincere apologies.
> >
> > But there really is a lot of algae out there (oi)
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


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